Book Chat 2: Anne Argula/Homicide My Own
talpianna said...Can anyone explain to me the phrase "da frick"? What does it mean? (I do get the source, having studied Old English.) And is it one of her Pennsylvania expressions, or Spokane word?
Kiersten said...Well, coming from the land of the Mormons, Frick is a substitute for those who don't actually want to use the F word.
Evil Editor said...I made no attempt to translate, thinking it was a throwaway, like Canadians saying eh after everything... Maybe something like "you know?"
Dave F. said... Battlestar Galactica uses "frack" for most epithets. There is also a Frick Museum in Western PA
talpianna said... Well, it's obviously derived from the Anglo-Saxon "fricgean"; but is it an expletive, a description, or what?
talpianna said... The main Frick Museum is in New York City. It's got Holbein's portrait of Sir Thomas MOre; it was originally Henry Clay Frick's mansion. I think he made his money exploiting coal miners, so that's another possible derivation.
writtenwyrdd said... 'frick' is a very common exchange for the obvious swear word, as is 'frig'. You have Doctor Evil using it all the freaking time in The Spy Who Shagged Me. FWIW.
Dave F. said... a few colloqialisms to make the backgrounds of the characters not Oregon but Western Pennsylvania - a green weenie, Woi Yesus! My question is, should we say Yoi and Double Yoi? I can translate...Myron Cope says Yoi and Double Yoi. It's like Gosh and Gee Whiz. Green Weenie is another Myron Cope threat - like the Terrible Towel (y'all should own one).
Kiersten said... I'm telling you, it's an expletive that fills in for the f-word. I'm well versed in fake swearwords.
Evil Editor said... The narrator has several expressions I'm not familiar with, though it didn't affect my enjoyment of his voice.
talpianna said...Speaking as someone also named Anne, I'm reasonably sure that the author is female....
Kiersten said... I loved the narration in this book. Although I could have done with fewer references to her nipples (seriously, they were like another character), I thought that approaching it from a gruff observer really made the whole reincarnation aspect of the story believable.
Robin S. said... I liked the narration, too, Kiersten, although I gotta say my 'fictive dream' was interrupted a bit with the 'da frick' stuff sometimes. I was surprised that it bugged me, to be honest. Normally, colloquialisms don't.
Evil Editor said... The author is male, but has chosen to use a female pen name for his mysteries.
Dave F. said... My thoughts on EE's question about pseudonym - would you read a book so involved in menopause by a man?
Dave F. said... I thought Quinn's body was a separate character in the story. At least her menopause was a separate presence.
talpianna said... I wonder why a male author would WANT to write from the PoV of a menopausal female? Did the story somehow require such a voice? Was it an experiment? Did he do it on a bet?
Dave F. said... Much of the earthiness (some might say crudeness) of the novel is fueled by Quinn's menopause. Is it possible that a male version of menopause fuels Odd's hidden memories?
talpianna said... Dave, Odd's only in his early thirties--too young for male menopause.
Evil Editor said... Though funny things happen in the book, I found myself laughing most at the voice, at the thoughts she had. I'll probably pick up the sequel just because I like her.
Kiersten said... Yeah, it was the strength of the narration that really sets it apart. It was hard trying to describe it to my husband without making it sound insane, but somehow the author pulls it off, and I think it's because s/he managed such a strong voice.
talpianna said... I didn't like the beginning, as it seemed awfully overwritten for the really mundane subject matter. But once the book really got into the mystery and the paranormal stuff, I got hooked. It's not a "fair play" mystery, but that's OK. And I got to like Quinn, even though she's apparently devoid of a first name.
Robin S. said... I liked Quinn, too, and the interplay between she and Odd, and their nutty-close relationship.
Kiersten said... Odd's pretty young though. I'll admit, I was actually kind of disappointed when the whole Odd remembering things from another lifetime thing first came up. I was suspecting he had big secrets from knowing the ferry time and being obsessed with the picture. But then the author made up for it, and I liked where he took it.
Robin said... I was glad to see there were sequels. And I enjoyed that it was not a traditional mystery- that it crossed genres, I suppose is what I mean.
talpianna said...
That's what I was going to ask next: How many of you plan to read and/or buy the sequel, which is out now?
Kiersten said...
If they have it at the library I'll check it out. I have very strict requirements for books that I'll purchase.
Evil Editor said... I wonder if book 2 is a straight mystery or if it, too, crosses genres.
Robin S. said... I hope it crosses genres - I'd like to see more of that. I enjoyed these characters, but part of what made them, came from their reincarnation experiences realized, so I'd like to think that would continue.
talpianna said... From amazon.com, on WALLA WALLA SUITE:Quinn, a newly divorced ex-cop, retains custody of her wild hot flashes, her twisted tongue, her fey sense of humor, and her propensity for trouble. Now trying to get a foothold as a P.I. in a new city, Quinn takes what she thinks will be a safe job with Vincent Ainge, to whom she is oddly attracted. Vincent, who has his own demons, is the only mitigation investigator in the Northwest working to save the lives of convicted killers from ending at the gallows in Walla Walla state prison. When a young secretary named Eileen vanishes, the woman’s boss hires Quinn to track her down. What looks like a missing-person case turns out to be anything but, sucking into its wake Vincent, his demented father, Eileen’s barely legitimate boss, her sexually vulnerable mother, a serial rapist and possible serial killer, and, of course, Quinn herself. Quinn’s improvised investigation takes her to the dangerous dark corners of the human psyche and casts suspicion where she least expects it, which will ignite a burst of violence and a resolution that readers won’t see coming.
Kiersten said... That's disappointing. I was just about to say I thought it was cool that she decided to stay with her husband. And where's Odd??
talpianna said... Looks like AA has switched focus, as not only is Odd gone, but so are the career, the city, and the spouse. There also seems to be no paranormal element.I might well pick this one up. Gee, I miss AllDirect.com. Overstock.com is likely to have it cheapest.
Evil Editor said... Possibly the husband and Odd are there but not worthy of mention in the summary.
Robin S. said... If her husband was getting it on with his assistant in book one, and my money is on - he was - he deserved his dumping. I hope she did the dumping, anyway.
Kiersten said... Newly divorced? No hubby. But at least that other main character, her menopause, made the cut.
talpianna said... Well, then, EE, they can't be too important to the plot. It may say if we read further in the Amazon summaries and reviews.
Evil Editor said... They saw that duty, but in more than one life.
talpianna said... Dave, are you suggesting that "duty" is the THEME of the book? I didn't think so at all. I thought it was finding out the truth about oneself.
Evil Editor said... Sidebar, for those who didn't see it at the end of the last chat: Darryl Ponicsan ( pronounced PAHN-i-son ) (born May 26, 1938) is an American writer. Ponicsan is best known as the author of the 1971 novel The Last Detail, which was adapted into a 1973 movie starring Jack Nicholson; and for the 1973 novel and screenplay Cinderella Liberty, starring James Caan. The films of those two novels were multiple Oscar nominees, including best screenplay for The Last Detail (the screenplay of Cinderella Liberty was nominated for a Golden Globe).His pen name is Anne Argula, author of our next book, Homicide My Own.
BuffySquirrel said... Really, The Last Detail?*boggles*
talpianna said... Gee, those are famous, though I've never seen either of them. Wonder why the pen name, other than he wanted to write from a female point of view.
Kiersten said... I just thought Stacey's mom was such an idiot that the whole subplot bugged me.
Robin S. said... I thought of Stacy's mom as one of those lost souls types.
Dave F. said... Let me make a couple comments on the opening 289 words. Odd Gunderson accepts his visions and acts on them. Odd is accepting of many things. The author says: "He accepted the town of his father in the same way he accepted his father's politics, as a given until taken, or worn away; the same way he accepted his father's religion, an unsmiling Lutheranism." That's a major league foreshadow on the first page considering the final revelations of the story.
Evil Editor said... Maybe they were together in lives previous to Korea.
BuffySquirrel said... Why worry about solving the case? If everyone's going to be reincarnated anyway, they can solve it themselves in their next lives.
Xenith said... The whole body thing, beyond the menopause even, felt like "Hey, I can write a female -- see all my cool inside details!!"(Do anyone's nipples go spring!)
Kiersten said... Yeah, I found it distracting.
Kiersten said... I think it's too easy to focus on that when writing women. We're not all wimps and slave to our hormones; I've done two pregnancies and two c-sections without complaining or freaking out or buying lots of fireworks.Although I did always crave slushies...I guess that aspect of the novel bothers me more now that I know it was written by a man.
BuffySquirrel said... Quinn is written by a MAN!
Dave F. said... Let me return to the opening 300 words: There's a lot in those words. Quinn is in turmoil. To quote: "searing uncurlings beneath the skin." Besides the obvious, "No method of transportation had yet been invented that could get this one willingly to that great place beyond city limits known as Away." She feels guilty for her loss of sex drive. She feels this assignment is "punishment for something done wrong." Much like her menopause has taken away the closeness of her marriage. She says a paragraph or two later "Neither Odd nor I knew why we were so uncomfortable in Spokane." And by the end of the novel, she discovers a larger plan and is transformed.
Evil Editor said... It would be interesting to ask why this was published by a small press when the author has major credits, and it was good enough to get an Edgar nomination. I note that the sequel had a different publisher.
Dave F. said... I noticed that EE - It's like this was an experimental writing.
talpianna said... EE, I don't know how many books the author has published other than the ones you cited. It could be that his main publisher had right of first refusal and decided they didn't want to publish it. That scene with the oral sex is pretty iffy for a general audience, considering that the girl is fourteen.
Evil Editor said... The whole thing is iffy with the 14 yr old. Fifteen would be better.
Dave F. said... That "love" affair is just awful. I'd say really nasty stuff about it but I have a relative who had a child at 15.
talpianna said... Dave, in what way is she "transformed"? She has insight into reincarnation, but she doesn't seem to be about to make changes in her life. She brushes off Odd's suggestion that they go away together.
Robin S. said... I agree Dave- I think this is excellent foreshadowing.Why would she/he do that, EE - think she/he couldn't drum up interest, initially, or is there something else that could be different?
Dave F. said... Her transformation?And at the end of the novel she is living happily with her husband. she says she's told him the story and all that gives the impression of intimacy and familial life returned to normal. Plus, her attitude seems much improved from the raging beast she was.
BuffySquirrel said... "Raging beast"? Good grief. Dave is shocked by a book driven by the menopause instead of by some guy's dick.
Dave F. said... Oh for {bleep} sake NO: Dave is shocked by a book driven by the menopause instead of by some guy's dick.I did giggle at the menopause but where Odd is accepting, Quinn is aflame with more than just menopause. She'd become unhinged in life as if she drifting and aimless and without purpose. The solving of the murder changes that. I might even argue that this book ahs the perfect cinderella ending I've been too near too many women going through menopause and to tell the God's honest truth, several have been raging beasts using whatever authority they have to punish the world for their body. Quinn never stops complaining until the last pages of the novel. Then she begins to understand her Karmic previous life. Quinn makes the biggest deal of her physical condition.
Evil Editor said... It's better when the author's here to clarify stuff. Instead of choosing books that got award nominations I could choose books whose authors agree in advance to attend.
Robin S. said... I agree, EE. Hearing from the author and bouncing our ideas off of him/her to find out the answer is really good.Although - I have to say- this is good, too! And - I read a book I wouldn't have found otherwise - which I love.
Evil Editor said... Tal was clearly a mole in a previous life. Who/what was everyone else here?
talpianna said... Whaddaya mean, "a mole in a PREVIOUS life"? Have you taken a good look at my avatar?
Kiersten said... I was an editor, and am being punished for my ruthless rejecting.
Robin S. said... I think before being Robin, I was a cat, or me, living somewhere else. Another country.
Evil Editor said... I was Herman Melville.
talpianna said... Now that I know that "Anne Argula" is a pseudonym, I keep thinking it should have been "Lettice Arugula."
Robin S. said... Call me Ishmael.
Kiersten said... A lot of her actions were really irrational, like the naked spanking. (Typing with one hand instead of leaving.)
Evil Editor said... Perhaps her actions were being guided by another force.
Evil Editor said... She really didn't have any reason to buy so many fireworks. The plan hadn't been formulated yet.
BuffySquirrel said... Oh, but menopausal women always buy fireworks to excess. It's well known!
Xenith said... What was the point of the fireworks, anyway?
Dave F. said... Anyone want to take on the image of the fireworks and the firework sales stands? Telling your kid to sleep in one while armed seemed excessive...
talpianna said... The fireworks-buying was a ploy to keep the deputy's attention so he wouldn't discover his wife and Odd having their reunion. I think using them in the denouement was just Ibsenism (the shotgun over the fireplace).
Evil Editor said... I know it was a ploy, but she blew hundreds of dollars. She could have shopped more slowly, not knowing the fireworks would come in handy.
talpianna said... I thought the use of the fireworks was one of the weakest points in the book. After being subjected to a barrage of them, the killer just carries on with his plan to shoot Quinn and Odd; it apparently never occurs to him that there might be witnesses around (who set off the fireworks), and although his nerves were shaken, he's immediately perfectly calm and cool again.
Kiersten said... Seriously, EE. I guess she did end up getting her money's worth though.
Xenith said... I wasn't impressed with the end, from the too many passengers in the car stuff to the this is dangerous but "um um here's a way to justify it" trap that would work better on the screen
Evil Editor said... I assume there's an island with fireworks stands and a casino that the author's been to, as he lives in Washington. I wouldn't be surprised if there were lots of Roberts.
talpianna said... As for why the fireworks, I think it was just taking advantage of an odd fact: the only place you could legally buy fireworks was on an Indian reservation. Same with the casino. Here in Arizona Indian casinos are really big business--provided a lot of medical care, education, homes, etc. for the tribes.
Dave F. said... Well, Quinn calls up her long-suffering leiutenant and has one of the most vulgar conversations I've ever read. It's when they get into the cottages. The poor man must be treading on eggs with the way she blows a cork at him. She's the fireworks.
Kiersten said... I don't know, Dave, maybe it's the police culture (and yes, that's a huge generalization). My husband did a DUI ride-along, and he said he's never heard so much swearing in his life. He was really entertained.
talpianna said... I think Kiersten's right. I'm not a big fan of profanity (no pun intended), but I recognize that it's sometimes significant for characterization. For example, Eve Dallas, the homicide cop in Nora Roberts's J.D. Robb series, is very foul-mouthed (though I notice she never uses the C-word); but it fits because she's a streetwise cop. If she were, for example, an editor, it would be different.And one thing that I WILL NOT ACCEPT is four-letter words in an omniscient-author PoV!
Dave F. said... Quinn doesn't curse profanely.There's no GD or "F" or other 4 letter words. She talks in low and vulgar terms and innuendos. She makes sure he understands. Notice his last message: "Tell those nimrods to get home..." I wish I would have written that segment out and kept it.
talpianna said... Orginally from the Biblical Nimrod, a mighty hunter, it has come to mean socially inadequade.Or stupid.I haven't come across this before. It's apparently US-only slang.
Kiersten said... Of course it is, Nimrod.(JUST KIDDING.)
Dave F. said...If someone walked up to me and told me secrets from my childhood or HS past, I'd be browning my drawers and leaving a puddle. Odd addressed him with the words of his dead lover (or something like that). That's enough to shake the rock of Gilbratar The Indians believe in reincarnation. That makes the story work. and Chief Shining Pony has the final say - Judge, jury and executioner. And he does not regret his decision.
Kiersten said...
The chief and the inn owner were good red herrings.
BuffySquirrel said...
I kept waiting for the real reason Odd knew all that stuff to come out.
talpianna said...
Dave, where did it say that the Indians believed in reincarnation? Other than the end quote from the Indian (or Tibetan) holy man?And I think the Indian names were very implausible. I know something of how Indians choose names, and these were inconsistent.
Dave F. said... No reincarnation as Eastern Mystics see it. (If I do bad work, I'll come back as a worm) - or (If I do good works I'll achieve Nirvana), they believe that the spirits of the dead linger and can return. It's the concept of "fated" love... It's more like - I knew you in a previous life and we are fated to be together... The damaged Spirits lingered around the horrendous murder and now manifest to the living to have justice. The world is equity again.
Kiersten said...
Police cliches and American Indian cliches. It's easy to write.
Kiersten said...
There was also a certain notion of people being interchangable. The Roberts being an example.
talpianna said...
Maybe I would have liked this book better if I hadn't just read a really superb psychological mystery/thriller before picking it up.
Dave F. said...
Just because we deal with Openings every day, here are the first 157 words. Neither of these two cops had ever pulled that kind of duty before. One of them a man, the other a woman; one young the other not so young; one dour and of few words, and the other more dour than he, but with a mouth when a mouth was needed. Why them?The man was the young one, Odd Gunderson, and he hated living in Spokane, though he was born and raised there. He accepted the town of his father in the same way he accepted his father's politics, as a given until taken, or worn away; the same way he accepted his father's religion, an unsmiling Lutheranism. The woman was a transplant from the coal regions of Pennsylvania, via Los Angeles, where she had gone because of "Dragnet" reruns, and where she became a cop, and where she would still happily be a cop, cruising Hollywood Boulevard, if she hadn't married a pharmacist from Spokane.
Robin S. said... Dave, I like that opening. It gives you a lifetime in a snippet.
Dave F. said... That, is a magnificent opening. I said earlier it foreshadows so much of the book. It's really, really tight and it intrigues the reader. The REST of the front page is: Odd had ready enthusiasm for an impromptu road trip out of town. All he needed was his tapes, which consisted , the older one regrettably found out, of "leaving-town-music" and "Rolling-into-town-music" and "Driving-in-the-lonely-night-music." The older one, the woman, did not like music and had no tapes, nor any enthusiasm, for any trip at all. No method of transportation had yet been invented that could get this one willingly to that great place beyond city limits known as Notice how you just HAVE to find out that next word. The typographer earned his money that day.
Kiersten said... I liked the opening, too, but it was kind of jarring when the POV switched.
talpianna said...
I think what bothered me most about Quinn was her lack of professionalism. She's been a cop for almost 20 years; but she let herself repeatedly be distracted not only by her menopausal symptoms but by circumstances that arise. She should have more self control by now.
Evil Editor said...
As far as she knew it was grunt work that she shouldn't have been assigned.
talpianna said...
She EXPECTED grunt work. She mentioned in the book that she wasn't a detective, and their assignments usually consisted of picking up drunks, breaking up domestic disturbances, and the like.
Evil Editor said... After 20 years of grunt work, how much professionalism are you going to have while doing more grunt work?
Robin S. said...
EE, as an editor, when you were reading Homicide, did anything hit you that you'd have liked to see doen differently?
Kiersten said...
Great question, Robin.
Evil Editor said...
I thought there were too many typos, for starters. And there were a few places where I had trouble with who was talking. I liked that it was short and to the point. Quinn telling the story for the last time, not some 3rd person narrator embellishing with description etc.
Robin S. said... Yeah, EE. I liked that the narrator's life intrueded on her - on what she was supposed to be doing professionally, etc. The real time feeling.
talpianna said...
EE, you naive innocent! Even NORA ROBERTS doesn't get good copyediting nowadays!
Dave F. said... I did appreciate the brevity. That shouldn't surprise anyone. I also liked the singular POV of Quinn. Her character was attractive in many ways and fun to read about. I didn't notice typos.
Kiersten said...
EE, when you read, is it hard to turn off your editor lenses?I still analyze everything I read and look for good theses that I could base a paper around, and the support for those. It's annoying.
ME said...Hi! I didn't read the book, I just read 134 comments (I love to lurk)
Xenith said... Reading the book would have been quicker, ME
ME said... and if it's not out of line I'd like to mention something about Cinderella Liberty?
Evil Editor said...What about Cin Lib? Not that I remember anything about it.
Robin S. said...Yeah, Dave. sorry. I should have said before. The mention of the leaving songs was good, when I looked back. I reread first pages when I'm finished with a book, to see the wraparound effect - if there is or if there isn't one.I also read the last pages first. Weird, but there you go.
BuffySquirrel said...I'd like EE to have done one thing differently--chosen a different book!
Evil Editor said... Buffy hated the book.
Kiersten said... I didn't love it, but I thought it was interesting. Who thinks, "I know, I'll write a cop novel, only include menopause, a decades-old murder, and reincarnation! Oh yeah, and let's have a sympathetic pedophile. And fireworks."
Dave F. said...
I will say one thing that disappointed me, I guessed the ending on page 66 out of 220.
talpianna said...
I think the names of the songs should have been mentioned.
Evil Editor said... When authors aren't showing up I should allow volunteers who really loved the book to direct the discussion.
Robin S. said...
Oh- I like that idea about directing discussion, so we can really dig in. Although I do think we manage to do pretty well.
Kiersten said...
You mean like a moderator? I kind of like the chaos. It makes it easier to multitask.
BuffySquirrel said...
Well, if CW doesn't turn up for "To Say Nothing of the Dog", can I volunteer, EE? Much book love here!
Kiersten said... If Meyer's a no-show, I'll volunteer for Twilight. I've read it three times (blushes) and engaged in a lot of dialogue about it.
talpianna said...
EE, I don't agree with your policy of choosing books that none of us, including you, have read. I'd prefer to go by recommendations--especially mine!
Robin S. said... I think we're asking for trouble if we pick the books. I'm guessing we all have vastly different tastes.
Evil Editor said...
I chose six books I hadn't read so that I would have to read them too. As they were all award nominess, I figured they'd all be good.
BuffySquirrel said... Hmm, EE. Very perspicacious in one regard, but you surely didn't really think award winners would necessarily be good! p.s. "The Road" won lots of awards. And it is good!
ME said... Well the library didn't have it and I want to spend my Amazon cert on something good. (Although I was tempted to round out my collection of Evil Editor books!!) Anyway, The Cinder Lib thing is funny because even though I read that book 30 years ago (I did just catch the flick recently) I clearly remember a subplot about hemmorhoids (medical issue) and the author's voice. I think it was 3rd omni for the most part. I'm a bit intrigued to read those comments regarding the menopause symptoms, and I wonder if the author's ability to "write as a woman" comes from his own personal relationship(s). Also, thanks, Dave, for the 1st 150 because I found that very interesting. I will keep a look out for this title at the library. Sorry the author didn't show, EE.
Xenith said... At the start, where we're finding out about the characters background rather than the story (and then their assignment and then they go for a drive). All this is, at best, peripheral to the central story
Robin S. said...
Oh - I see, xenith. I guess we're different on that one - I think the voice was engaging even in the intro. Sometimes I just go by 'feel' - story or not- if I like the way it sounds to my 'inner ear', and I feel that way about most of this one, although for me, the dialog, dialog, dialog got a bit old sometimes. Sometimes the dialog moved me along too fast - faster than I really wanted to go. Sometimes I wanted to take longer, so I could think through what was happening as I read, not later.
